What is included in the atonement?
What is included in the atonement?
What is included in the atonement?
This question seems to be at the foundation of my other questions "can Christians sin" and "What is difference between Sin, Transgression And iniquity"
I know there are many different answers people have for this so please use scriptures as often as you can.
what is included in the atonement or what did Jesus do (complete) at the cross?
what blessings of God are included? (I don't know)
Physical healing and prosperity? (I say no)
Power of God? maybe some powers of God? (I don't know)
all the sins of all men,
all the sins of some men,
some sins of all men.
or
all the sins of all men who believe in Christ
some sins of all men who believe in Christ
Whatever Biblical info you have on what is in and what is not in the Atonement will help.
Thanks
Sam
This question seems to be at the foundation of my other questions "can Christians sin" and "What is difference between Sin, Transgression And iniquity"
I know there are many different answers people have for this so please use scriptures as often as you can.
what is included in the atonement or what did Jesus do (complete) at the cross?
what blessings of God are included? (I don't know)
Physical healing and prosperity? (I say no)
Power of God? maybe some powers of God? (I don't know)
all the sins of all men,
all the sins of some men,
some sins of all men.
or
all the sins of all men who believe in Christ
some sins of all men who believe in Christ
Whatever Biblical info you have on what is in and what is not in the Atonement will help.
Thanks
Sam
Re: What is included in the atonement?
Sam, I have been affirming continually over the years that the purpose of "the atonement" (literally "the means of mercy") is to free us from sin or wrongdoing in the sense that we are better able to overcome sin, and to live righteously. This is consistent with the teachings of Paul and Peter, and the writer of Hebrews all of whom explained why Christ died:
I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.
Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.
Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
If anyone has any suggestions of articles or books to understand all the views of atonement (ok the views that are biblical) please recommend
Re: What is included in the atonement?
I would suggest reading Isaiah 53 which Matthew referenced in Matt 8.17 and combining that with what Paidion referenced.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
I found the book "The Cross of Christ", by John R.W. Stott to be very thorough and understandable.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
Nice I love John R.W. Stott. That is one I will read. Thanks
Re: What is included in the atonement?
Sam,
Here is an interesting article:
http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=7015
Paidion,
You wrote:
Here is an interesting article:
http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=7015
Paidion,
You wrote:
Seems to me your view makes the atonement only marginally effective; we are only "somewhat" improved.Sam, I have been affirming continually over the years that the purpose of "the atonement" (literally "the means of mercy") is to free us from sin or wrongdoing in the sense that we are better able to overcome sin, and to live righteously.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
Perhaps "much improved" would be more accurate, but perfection is the goal; that goal is not reached when we enter the door of salvation at our conversion, but after we have walked the narrow path of discipleship, overcoming sin by the enabling grace of God, and becoming righteous. Thus the full effect of the atonement is not instantaneous but ongoing.Homer wrote:Seems to me your view makes the atonement only marginally effective; we are only "somewhat" improved.
Here is how the apostle Paul put it in his letter to the Philippians:
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel. For God is my witness, how I yearn for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. (Philippians 1:6-11 ESV)
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
I didn't get any further than Hicks' first sentence. He wrote:Homer wrote:Here is an interesting article:
http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=7015
The Greek words in the NT,frequently translated as "atonement", are "ἱλασμος (hilasmos)" and "ἱλαστηριον (hilastārion)". They do NOT mean "reconciliation."Atonement means reconciliation (at-one-ment).
However, the Greek word "καταλλαγη [katallagā]" which is mistranslated in Romans 5:11 as "atonement" DOES mean "reconcilation" and ought to be so translated. And that is exactly how it IS rendered in the following translations: ASV, Darby, Douay, EMTV, ESV, RSV, Murdoch, NKJV, Phillips, Rothram, Revised Webster, World English Bible, Weymouth, and Williams. Indeed, I have found NO translation other than the King James which renders the word as "reconciliation."
The English word "atonement" means the same as “expiation”. It refers the act of making amends or reparation for wrongdoing. If I bat a ball through my neigbour's window, he may tell me, "You are going to have to atone for that!"
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: What is included in the atonement?
Okay, Sam, I just posted chapter 2 of The Supreme Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, a booklet which I started several years ago and still haven't completed. I had posted chapters 1 and 3 in this forum, but not chapter 2 until today. In this post, I reject the substitutionary theory of atonement and explain why. Indeed, I do not consider Christ's sacrifice as an "atonement" in the strict sense of the word, but loosely refer to it in that way since it is so commonly done. If you read the chapter, you will see why.Sam MacNear wrote:If anyone has any suggestions of articles or books to understand all the views of atonement (ok the views that are biblical) please recommend.
http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4094
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.