Does conduct determine a Christian's final salvation?

[TruthSeeker]

I need help to understand how Scripture fits together regarding justification and Christian behavior. I understand that we are justified by faith alone without works, and have read through Paul's writings on this matter many times and think I have a good understanding on this.

However, there are certain Scriptures in the Bible which suggest that a Christan's behaviour is going to affect his final outcome/salvation. Verses like these:

Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

- this suggests that sin will eventually land someone in hell. Justification by faith says that faith is all that's required for salvation

And also these:

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

- again, the point is behaviour matters to who will inherit the kingdom of God

and these:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

and these:

Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

- without holiness on one sees the Lord. Now when I read this I immediately think, the standard is set very high. Personal holiness is a requirement for final salvation.

How does one harmonize all of these Scriptures? How exactly does Christian behaviour affect final salvation? Thanks.

[steve7150]

How does one harmonize all of these Scriptures? How exactly does Christian behaviour affect final salvation? Thanks.





I think these examples refer to unrepentent behavior. Most Christians will lie at some point or be fearful or committ other sins, this is called "stumbling" as James put it, but we repent ask forgiveness with the intention to do God's will.

[TK]

I heard some preacher say once "You are saved by faith, not works. But you are not save unless your faith works."

Presumably someone whose faith "works" will not be a person described by Paul in the verses noted by Truthseeker.

TK

[TruthSeeker]

Thank you all for the replies.

Can someone explain to me what Heb 12:14 is trying to teach? What is Paul's point?

Thanks!

[dseusy]

TruthSeeker,

This answer is kind of late but I believe it is found in 1 John 3:3.

Hebrews 12:14 is similar to:

"For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20

and

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48

[Jon]

You should read "Not By Faith Alone" by Robert Sungenis. Or, his shorter version called "How Can I Get To Heaven?"

It walks through the questions of justification by grace, works, etc, and is a detailed study on the topic.

In short, you are not saved by works, you are saved by grace. But you can lose that salvation by your own actions if they are against God's will. There are so many clear examples in the Bible that teach you can lose your salvation if you do not follow Jesus' request of "keeping his commandments". For the good of your soul I highly recommend this book. It can explain it in detail more than any few sentences on a blog could.

Jon

[jriccitelli]

The verse (12:14) does stand out, and does say that without 'sanctification' no one will see God, if you are a believer, you are born again, you are a new creature, you are given His Spirit, and thus you are 'being' sanctified.
You are a new creature, but it is still a process.
We have been forgiven and we continue to be forgiven.

The verse should always looks back to where it has been; So in Hebrews 2:10-11,
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren...

while it is said, "Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me."16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
(Hebrews 3:15-19)

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (4:14-16)

10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, ... 19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; (10:10-23)

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. ...29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? ...31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings,33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. ...39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (10:26-39)

(Now the emphasis on faith) ... They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38 ...wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. (11:37-40)
So after reading that it is Him that sanctifys us, and 'through faith' in Him, He desires to make us holy and 'set apart', this chapter reminds us that this may require that our sanctification involve suffering. As He suffered, and those that we belong to (The Body) also have suffered, we see that it may be said that; to see the Lord we to may have to suffer. Note the verses of chap. 11 speak of suffering in an ungodly world, and verses proceeding 12:14 talk of disipline that God will 'allow' us to suffer for our sanctification and 'disipline'. It does not say we suffer because we are unfaithful, but 'because we are faithful', and sons. like other posts refered to 1 John, by this shall we know that we are the sons of God.

[backwoodsman]

You should read "Not By Faith Alone" by Robert Sungenis.

A couple minutes with Google and Wikipedia indicate he's a Catholic apologist who is known for, among other things, his stand against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. I think you'll find that, when speaking to non-Catholic Christians in a forum such as this, making your points from Scripture will be much more effective than appealing to the work of Catholic apologists.

Wikipedia also notes that Sungenis is an advocate of geocentrism. To many, Christian or otherwise, that really impinges on his credibility.

[Paidion]

I need help to understand how Scripture fits together regarding justification and Christian behavior. I understand that we are justified by faith alone without works...

Consider the meaning of "justification" as "being made righteous" rather than "being counted righteous" and see where it leads you.

There is plenty in the New Testament which shows that our deliverance from sin in our lives into actual righteousness comes about from God's enabling grace (Titus 2) through faith.

[jriccitelli]

Now I'm gonna be late to work, but a quick note on 'geocentrism' (The Catholic dogma of earth as the foundation and center of the Universe. The Church also teaches that the earth does 'not' rotate)

Yet we know now that even the center of the earth 'does' move, in fact it is always moving, some of it molten. And even the plates and substructures move. And it has been recently noted that the center may be rotating 'faster' than the surface.
Nothing personal Jon, please i am glad you are here, but consider this when holding to 'tradition'.