Man, I love thinking about this stuff.
I was thinking about what makes the difference sometimes between what seems to be Spirit-filled worship and what is not. Sometimes, I just do not feel the Spirit when I am worshiping and other times I feel He is present.
I really think, perhaps, that the reason He is not felt sometimes is because we are not walking in Him and perhaps others in the room are not as well. When the Spirit is present, He is such a bold expression of the Lord it overflows onto others that are present and so you can taste of the Spiritual worship.
I understand the difference or warning of trying to "feel" His presence vs. _knowing_ His presence. I really believe He is present in many, just perhaps not filling (because of what I said in previous posts). However, we are Spiritually discerning and can sense that presence in my opinion. If this is true, it should lead us to realize that perhaps we are not filled with the Spirit or walking in the Spirit at that time either. That should be our primary focus, that should be our primary goal, to have His filling presence.
The "Spirit" is given personal traits and is referred to as a "person" that carries those traits. Those "traits" (which could probably be infinitely enumerated) manifest themselves in the _roles_ that the Spirit fulfills. I see distinct "roles" between Those. I would have a hard time not seeing the 3 distinct "Personalities."
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
To experience this, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, would be such a huge transformation that I don't see how it wouldn't be celebrated. It would have to be with others I think.
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Hi Jarrod,
About 14 years ago I was worshiping as a visitor at a small inner-city church in Chicago. I grew up in pretty conservative churches in northern Michigan so this was a little different than what I was used to. We were all standing and singing, and during one of the songs I decided to do something I'd never done before--raise my hands high. Before doing this, I remember thinking I don't really know anybody here and I don't really care what they think about me anyway. Well, when I raised my hands, it was like my entire body was flooded/overwhelmed/electrified, etc. I remember thinking I can't stay up; I'm going to fall down. I didn't fall because I quickly knelt down on the floor. Then tears just started rolling down my face and I kept repeating Thank You, thank you God, over and over. I remember feeling intense joy. The whole thing only lasted a few minutes, but it was incredibly intense and out of the blue.
This was 14 years ago. I didn't start speaking in tongues, and as far as I'm aware, I don't have the gift of tongues or prophesy. I've never known quite what to make of this experience I had, but just yesterday I told some friends that I think it may have been what some call the baptism of the Spirit. I've read on the internet about other Christians experiencing the same thing I experienced, so I know my experience was not unique.
you said in one of your earlier posts...
This experience--along with a physical healing I experienced--have caused my faith and knowledge to grow a lot. Prior to these two events I was a Deists. I believed God created everything, put it in motion, and just watched from a distance.
As an aside, since that experience I've had different people tell me that I should have the gift of tongues. I attended a Joyce Meyer conference with my wife (probably about 10 years ago) where we all prayed together for the gift of tongues. Then we took about 10 minutes practicing. Hundreds of people all being encouraged to just let it out. Start with simple nonsense syllables and just let your tongue keep moving; it didn't work.
I also had a church elder lay hands on me to impart this gift, but I don't have it.
Like I said, I don't speak in tongues and I believe there is an unhealthy obsession with tongues nowadays, but I understand how people can read Acts and come to the conclusion that tongues should always follow the receiving of the Spirit.
About 14 years ago I was worshiping as a visitor at a small inner-city church in Chicago. I grew up in pretty conservative churches in northern Michigan so this was a little different than what I was used to. We were all standing and singing, and during one of the songs I decided to do something I'd never done before--raise my hands high. Before doing this, I remember thinking I don't really know anybody here and I don't really care what they think about me anyway. Well, when I raised my hands, it was like my entire body was flooded/overwhelmed/electrified, etc. I remember thinking I can't stay up; I'm going to fall down. I didn't fall because I quickly knelt down on the floor. Then tears just started rolling down my face and I kept repeating Thank You, thank you God, over and over. I remember feeling intense joy. The whole thing only lasted a few minutes, but it was incredibly intense and out of the blue.
This was 14 years ago. I didn't start speaking in tongues, and as far as I'm aware, I don't have the gift of tongues or prophesy. I've never known quite what to make of this experience I had, but just yesterday I told some friends that I think it may have been what some call the baptism of the Spirit. I've read on the internet about other Christians experiencing the same thing I experienced, so I know my experience was not unique.
you said in one of your earlier posts...
This rings true for me. I don't think there was or is anything magical about raising ones hands while worshiping; however, I think God was wanting me to stop allowing the fear of men to control me, i.e. What would people think if I raised my hands. They might think I'm strange.I think it's not just that we don't have something of Him, it's that He doesn't have something of us.
This experience--along with a physical healing I experienced--have caused my faith and knowledge to grow a lot. Prior to these two events I was a Deists. I believed God created everything, put it in motion, and just watched from a distance.
As an aside, since that experience I've had different people tell me that I should have the gift of tongues. I attended a Joyce Meyer conference with my wife (probably about 10 years ago) where we all prayed together for the gift of tongues. Then we took about 10 minutes practicing. Hundreds of people all being encouraged to just let it out. Start with simple nonsense syllables and just let your tongue keep moving; it didn't work.
I also had a church elder lay hands on me to impart this gift, but I don't have it.
Like I said, I don't speak in tongues and I believe there is an unhealthy obsession with tongues nowadays, but I understand how people can read Acts and come to the conclusion that tongues should always follow the receiving of the Spirit.
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen
~Garry Friesen
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
First, let me say praise the Lord for your experience with Him and choosing to care more about Him than anyone else. God loves our faith and I believe He blesses that choice. Also, I'm glad He used those times in your life to draw Him closer. I think I have some similar stories.psimmond wrote:This rings true for me. I don't think there was or is anything magical about raising ones hands while worshiping; however, I think God was wanting me to stop allowing the fear of men to control me, i.e. What would people think if I raised my hands. They might think I'm strange.
This experience--along with a physical healing I experienced--have caused my faith and knowledge to grow a lot. Prior to these two events I was a Deists. I believed God created everything, put it in motion, and just watched from a distance.
I think pursuing tongues based on popular teaching/leading/understanding of Scripture and being able to come away saying, "well, if I'm suppose to have it, I don't and I'm not going to pretend," is a responsible view.psimmond wrote:Like I said, I don't speak in tongues and I believe there is an unhealthy obsession with tongues nowadays, but I understand how people can read Acts and come to the conclusion that tongues should always follow the receiving of the Spirit.
Can I ask you this? Did your Baptism in the Spirit lead you to a deeper walk with the Lord that has been stronger than ever before and last longer than you've ever experienced before? Or, was it something that happened once, and after the next day or two it "wore off?"
Thanks for discussing!
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Psimmond-
Your experience parallels mine almost exactly-- it was actually rather weird reading it!
As far as my baptism in the HS experience goes, I was at a youth workers conference in Ripley WV. We thought we were going to learn about leading a "40 day Revolution" in our church youth group. But the leader of the conference instead played a whole bunch of audio/sermon compilations from the fireonthealtar.com website. This led to a time of prayer and then the Spirit just fell. It felt like there was a 1000 lb weight on top of me.. and then the tears came. But not just for me.. this was happening to everyone in the room. It was a time of deep repentance and a definite filling of the HS and I was forever changed. There was no tongues speaking that I was aware of.
But a couple years passed and I STILL never raised my hands in worship. I wanted to, I felt guilty for not doing it, but I resisted. I was a very good resister. Then one time I was at a corporate worship event (not at my church) and finally I just did it. I raised my hands and when I did I had a very different re-filling of the HS-- not of repentance, but of great joy and freedom. Still no speaking in tongues though.
The tongue "gift" was very much still very mysterious to me. My impression was that if I was to speak in tongues, then something would just bubble up from the inside and gush out of my mouth to the point where I wouldnt be able to control it. And of course this never happened.
Then I listened to a teaching by Andrew Wommack on this and he said that when he first rec'd the baptism of the HS he said he thought the same way I did about tongues. Then a pastor friend visited him and he told AW to just start speaking in tongues, AW said he didnt know how. Then the pastor told him that he (the pastor) would speak in tongues and AW should just repeat what he said. AW said that would be just pretending. The pastor's point was that speaking in tongues requires faith-- you have to take the step of speaking. The HS will not force you to speak. You have to give utterance. Anyways, at some point AW got over his mental block and began to speak in tongues. He said the greatest benefit to him was that he would read the scriptures and pray in tongues over what he was reading that the HS opened the scruiptures up to him in a very remarkable way.
His teaching on this topic, whih I think is very simple and good, can be found here: http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1040
Your experience parallels mine almost exactly-- it was actually rather weird reading it!
As far as my baptism in the HS experience goes, I was at a youth workers conference in Ripley WV. We thought we were going to learn about leading a "40 day Revolution" in our church youth group. But the leader of the conference instead played a whole bunch of audio/sermon compilations from the fireonthealtar.com website. This led to a time of prayer and then the Spirit just fell. It felt like there was a 1000 lb weight on top of me.. and then the tears came. But not just for me.. this was happening to everyone in the room. It was a time of deep repentance and a definite filling of the HS and I was forever changed. There was no tongues speaking that I was aware of.
But a couple years passed and I STILL never raised my hands in worship. I wanted to, I felt guilty for not doing it, but I resisted. I was a very good resister. Then one time I was at a corporate worship event (not at my church) and finally I just did it. I raised my hands and when I did I had a very different re-filling of the HS-- not of repentance, but of great joy and freedom. Still no speaking in tongues though.
The tongue "gift" was very much still very mysterious to me. My impression was that if I was to speak in tongues, then something would just bubble up from the inside and gush out of my mouth to the point where I wouldnt be able to control it. And of course this never happened.
Then I listened to a teaching by Andrew Wommack on this and he said that when he first rec'd the baptism of the HS he said he thought the same way I did about tongues. Then a pastor friend visited him and he told AW to just start speaking in tongues, AW said he didnt know how. Then the pastor told him that he (the pastor) would speak in tongues and AW should just repeat what he said. AW said that would be just pretending. The pastor's point was that speaking in tongues requires faith-- you have to take the step of speaking. The HS will not force you to speak. You have to give utterance. Anyways, at some point AW got over his mental block and began to speak in tongues. He said the greatest benefit to him was that he would read the scriptures and pray in tongues over what he was reading that the HS opened the scruiptures up to him in a very remarkable way.
His teaching on this topic, whih I think is very simple and good, can be found here: http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1040
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Hi Jarrod,
I would say that this experience has affected the path I'm traveling in this life even though the sensation and the excitement that I felt that afternoon were temporary. It removed a large obstacle--Deism--and showed me that God knows me and loves me in a personal way and wants me to die to my prideful self.
I don't feel like a superChristian because I've had this experience. I still battle with the flesh and my tandency to be selfish. I guess you could say that this experience broke down a spiritual wall and as a result I can now see God as my loving father.
As I said in an earlier post, God used a physical healing and this experience to break down this wall--I guess he knew how rational and skeptical I can be so he felt the need to slam home his point
. I don't talk a lot about either of these experiences because I don't want to discourage those who haven't had these experiences. I don't want anyone to think that guy must be more spiritual or have more faith because I know myself and I know I'm just a regular guy. But I do treasure them in my heart!
I don't know if either my healing or my experience of being flooded by God are things that other Christian should expect although I know that various Christians have experienced one or both of these things. I just don't know...maybe God gives us what we need. Maybe other Christians will experience dreams, or visions, or something that seems less miraculous in nature but is just what they need...I don't know.
I would say that this experience has affected the path I'm traveling in this life even though the sensation and the excitement that I felt that afternoon were temporary. It removed a large obstacle--Deism--and showed me that God knows me and loves me in a personal way and wants me to die to my prideful self.
I don't feel like a superChristian because I've had this experience. I still battle with the flesh and my tandency to be selfish. I guess you could say that this experience broke down a spiritual wall and as a result I can now see God as my loving father.
As I said in an earlier post, God used a physical healing and this experience to break down this wall--I guess he knew how rational and skeptical I can be so he felt the need to slam home his point
. I don't talk a lot about either of these experiences because I don't want to discourage those who haven't had these experiences. I don't want anyone to think that guy must be more spiritual or have more faith because I know myself and I know I'm just a regular guy. But I do treasure them in my heart! I don't know if either my healing or my experience of being flooded by God are things that other Christian should expect although I know that various Christians have experienced one or both of these things. I just don't know...maybe God gives us what we need. Maybe other Christians will experience dreams, or visions, or something that seems less miraculous in nature but is just what they need...I don't know.
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen
~Garry Friesen
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
TK,
Thanks for the link.
I no longer attend a charasmatic fellowship, but when I did I thought it was interesting that when people spoke in tongues it always sounded like a language from the Middle East. I feel that I can speak just like them, but when I do, I feel like I'm just babbling nonsense syllables (although it does sound like Arabic
).
Thanks for the link.
I no longer attend a charasmatic fellowship, but when I did I thought it was interesting that when people spoke in tongues it always sounded like a language from the Middle East. I feel that I can speak just like them, but when I do, I feel like I'm just babbling nonsense syllables (although it does sound like Arabic
).Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
~Garry Friesen
~Garry Friesen
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
TK wrote:It was a time of deep repentance and a definite filling of the HS and I was forever changed. There was no tongues speaking that I was aware of.
Thank both of you for sharing. I agree that a larger "portion?" of the Holy Spirit would definitely make you closer and change your life. But as you said psimmond, I definitely believe the flesh would still be present and that it would set it's desire on the Spirit. I believe seeking our Lord in His word and in prayer by ourselves as well as with others are the best ways to combat spiritual warfare. If we can see His character, know His fruits, and have a relationship with Him, we should be able to discern something contrary to that in our lives/minds and "bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ."psimmond wrote:I don't feel like a superChristian because I've had this experience. I still battle with the flesh and my tandency to be selfish. I guess you could say that this experience broke down a spiritual wall and as a result I can now see God as my loving father.
edit addition: However I believe (as I have experienced) we will still stumble as we walk, but just have to remain humble and thank the Lord for His forgiveness!
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
psimmond wrote:
And you are absolutely correct-- those who I have heard pray in tongues who seem to really have the gift DO sound like they are speaking a middle eastern dialect. I can't wait to hear what the angels sound like in their native tongue, just for comparison
TK
I dont attend one any more either. I have have gone full circle and am back in a non-charismatic (for the most part because there may be a few charistmatic types) fellowship. There are things I miss about it-- why can't there be a happy medium where it is the best of both worlds w/o the foolishness? It always seems to be at one extreme or the other. There is a book I read a while back called "Empowered Evangelicals" which sure seemed attractive.I no longer attend a charasmatic fellowship, but when I did I thought it was interesting that when people spoke in tongues it always sounded like a language from the Middle East. I feel that I can speak just like them, but when I do, I feel like I'm just babbling nonsense syllables (although it does sound like Arabic ).
And you are absolutely correct-- those who I have heard pray in tongues who seem to really have the gift DO sound like they are speaking a middle eastern dialect. I can't wait to hear what the angels sound like in their native tongue, just for comparison
TK
Re: Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Hmmm, I think part of my problem here, was that I was not differentiating between a Baptism in the Holy Spirit and "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." So, if you have completely committed your life to Christ, and asked for more and received it, then you are to _walk_ in that gifting with fear of the Lord in humility and sound mind... always remembering the next verse, "Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another."