Christ's perfection / filling with Holy Spirit

[Paidion]

As one who holds the theistic beliefs of the first two centuries, rather than Trinitarian theism, I look at the matter differently.

We know that Christ was without sin throughout His life on earth (or possibly beyond an age of accountability so that He was without taint of any guilt from sin). I have assumed that this was because from birth the fullness of the Spirit dwelt with Him completely all His life and that we could do likewise in measure to the fullness of the Spirit in our own lives.

This is an aside, but being sinless is not tantamount to being perfect. Clearly, according to the Scriptures, Jesus was sinless throughout His life. Notwithstanding, he had to learn obedience and had to bemade perfect.

Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him ... (Hebrews 5:8,9 ESV)

While Jesus was on earth, his Spirit was confined to his body — and Jesus IS the Spirit (2Co 3:17,18). The Spirit of the Father (not a third Person) came upon him at his baptism. And yet that Spirit is of the same essence as his own, since he and the Father share the same Spirit — the holy Spirit.

I understand we cannot enjoy the fullness of the Spirit unless and until we have been justified and transformed by our belief in Christ and our commitment to Him as Lord as evidenced in our baptism. I also understand that this wasn't even possible before Christ's sacrifice for anyone who was naturally conceived. But, even as to Christ, it seems that this was a special instance that didn't occur for whatever reason prior to His baptism. So, why not?

Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22). I think Jesus imparted his own Spirit to them at that time. The Spirit of Jesus was with them at that time, but when the Spirit fell on them on that special day of Pentecost, it dwelled within them and endued them with power. Perhaps it was a similar case with Jesus Himself. Clearly the Spirit of God the Father was WITH Him long before his baptism, for he communed with His Father constantly, and knew the Father's will, and did it. But perhaps at the time of his baptism, the Spirit of the Father dwelled within him in a permanent and fuller way so that He was given more spiritual power as a result.

And why did the Spirit need to come upon Him at His baptism? To what end if He was already fully in communion with the Father through His own Spirit?

Perhaps I've already answered this question in the previous paragraph.

[Homer]

Hi Paidion,

You wrote:

This is an aside, but being sinless is not tantamount to being perfect. Clearly, according to the Scriptures, Jesus was sinless throughout His life. Notwithstanding, he had to learn obedience and had to bemade perfect.

Wouldn't it be better to translate teleos as "complete" rather than "perfect" which might imply a defect?

While Jesus was on earth, his Spirit was confined to his body — and Jesus IS the Spirit (2Co 3:17,18). The Spirit of the Father (not a third Person) came upon him at his baptism. And yet that Spirit is of the same essence as his own, since he and the Father share the same Spirit — the holy Spirit.

This is much more difficult for me to grasp than the trinitarian concept. The article present in the Greek of 2 Cor. 3:17-18 would seem to point to a particular Spirit. It says Chist is the Spirit but you then say the Spirit of the Father came upon Jesus at His baptism. If they share the same Spirit, did Jesus come upon Himself at His baptism?

Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (John 20:22). I think Jesus imparted his own Spirit to them at that time. The Spirit of Jesus was with them at that time, but when the Spirit fell on them on that special day of Pentecost, it dwelled within them and endued them with power. Perhaps it was a similar case with Jesus Himself. Clearly the Spirit of God the Father was WITH Him long before his baptism, for he communed with His Father constantly, and knew the Father's will, and did it. But perhaps at the time of his baptism, the Spirit of the Father dwelled within him in a permanent and fuller way so that He was given more spiritual power as a result.

Again it seems you are saying Jesus imparted His Spirit to them (John 20:22) and then God sent His Spirit on them at Pentecost. But the Greek of John 20:22 could as easily be translated "take" rather than receive.

Perhaps you can clarify what you mean.

As I understand your view the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or power. Jesus referred to th Holy Spirit as "paracletos" which referred only to the personal in the LXX, New Testament, and Philo. Do you know of any cases where it was used of the impersonal?

Blessings to you this Lord's day!

[verbatim]

Homer quote to Paidion:

This is much more difficult for me to grasp than the trinitarian concept. The article present in the Greek of 2 Cor. 3:17-18 would seem to point to a particular Spirit. It says Chist is the Spirit but you then say the Spirit of the Father came upon Jesus at His baptism. If they share the same Spirit, did Jesus come upon Himself at His baptism?

As I understand your view the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or power. Jesus referred to th Holy Spirit as "paracletos" which referred only to the personal in the LXX, New Testament, and Philo. Do you know of any cases where it was used of the impersonal?

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.
Christ is the life giving spirit which dwelt (see Colossians 3:4, John 6:63)in all so, this spirit is impersonal and the Spirit of the Father which come as “paracletos” is the spirit of understanding which a believer received when he received and have been given the right to be a children of God, even to them that believed on his name. ( see Isaiah 11:2, Luke 24:45) Isa 11:2 And the Spirit of LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of LORD . Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed ionon them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures;

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

In regards to our topic Christ’s perfection / filling of Holy Spirit John’s passage Joh 7:37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Act 2:41 They then that received his word were baptized: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls.
Act 2:33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.
Thanks and God bless.

[JohnDB70X7]

1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

John 1:1 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

Philippians 2:6 in the Greek morphe theos huparchon (never ceasing to be God) became a man. And that man was / is the last Adam (which tells you about his nature being that of Adam before Adam fell).

So Jesus was / is innocence filled with perfect Holy Spirit... in that all three individuals in the Godhead are Spirit and are Holy. So, the above is not to say Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.

Non-trinitarians try to play these kinds of word games.

All three individuals of the Godhead are Fathers.

1. the Father of Christ.
2. the Father of Creation (who became Jesus)
3. the Father of truth / revelation / the Bible (2 Peter 1:20-21) the one who we typically call the Holy Spirit.

Calling God "God" is like God calling us "human." God is not a name. And "Holy Spirit" is not a name but a clinical description. Like "white male" or "asian female" would be.

But we are comfortable with our traditional nomenclatures... though they are not precise... and a cultist uses these things to carve up the average uninformed believer's theology...

In all actuality, the "Holy Spirit" is the individual in the Godhead we know the least about and who is the closest to us for as we believe in Jesus he lives in us. It is partly due to his humility, partly due to his ministry to promote Christ and the knowledge of him, and mostly due to our woeful ignorance of him and how to listen to him in our hearts. And that takes Bible study! (2 Timothy 2:15 / 1 John 4:1 / Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17)

Christ is in heaven on his Father's throne the lone resurrected human being / God the Word. Believers are with him after their / our deaths in disembodied spirits (2 Corinthians 5:6-8)

[Paidion]

Homer, never have I said or even implied that the spirit of God is impersonal. What I have affirmed is that he is not a third divine Person. Rather he is the extended consciousness of the Father and of the Son. And the extended consciousness of the Father and the Son is not an impersonal force. Your consciousness is confined to your body, and so is mine. But the Father and the Son can extend their consciousness to any point in the universe. They can dwell in the hearts of the faithful — even as Jesus said to his disciples, "The Father and I will come and make our dwelling with you."

So why is there only one Holy Spirit? Because consciousness of the Father and the Son are mingled into one. An analogy (perhaps a rather poor one) might be that one can mix water and alcohol and these two distinct liquids mingle in such a way that the result is a single, unified liquid.

So there is one spirit even though we sometimes read of "the spirit of God [the Father]" and sometimes of "the spirit of Jesus." I'm not sure why this distinction is sometimes made in the New Testament.

John DB, if "God" is not a name, but is an adjective "divine" analogous to us being "human", then why do we refer to "God" as "he" (masculine, singular)? And why does every instance of the word "God" in the New Testament, prefixed by the definite article, and having no other modifiers, refer to the Father only?