Basic Overview Please

[Guest]

Having been born and raised in the Catholic Church...I was never even exposed to eschotology. The Lord has drawn me into His Word, has opened my eyes to truths that I was totally blinded to just 3 years ago. I have left the Catholic Church and have been on a pursuit of His Truth ever since. Christian radio played a key role in sparking my interest in the Bible in the first place, and a teaching on the book of Revelation in particular really peaked my curiosity. As you may have guessed, the Bible teacher on the radio, espoused the dispensational, futurist view totally and completely. It's all I've known, until stumbling upon Steve's radio interview with Hank Hanagraff on the Bible Answer Man. I purchased the book "The 4 Views" and am just fascinated with it all. It seems that I can only take it in, in small doses as many of the precepts go so against the grain or "grid" that has been laid in my way of thinking. Do you think that you could give a synopsis, of sorts, of what amillinialist believe...chronoloically...and in a nutshell? (I don't ask for much!) If much of the prophecy in Revelation already was fulfilled in 70 AD...what is left to happen? Is the rapture simultaneous with the new heavens and the new earth coming into existance? What of the "first resurrection" and the "second resurrection"? I thank the Lord for leading me to Steve's web site and am so grateful for the hunger that He's planted in me for His Word. Thank you for what you do.

...waiting for Him,
Paula

[_Sean]

Having been born and raised in the Catholic Church...I was never even exposed to eschotology. The Lord has drawn me into His Word, has opened my eyes to truths that I was totally blinded to just 3 years ago. I have left the Catholic Church and have been on a pursuit of His Truth ever since. Christian radio played a key role in sparking my interest in the Bible in the first place, and a teaching on the book of Revelation in particular really peaked my curiosity. As you may have guessed, the Bible teacher on the radio, espoused the dispensational, futurist view totally and completely. It's all I've known, until stumbling upon Steve's radio interview with Hank Hanagraff on the Bible Answer Man. I purchased the book "The 4 Views" and am just fascinated with it all. It seems that I can only take it in, in small doses as many of the precepts go so against the grain or "grid" that has been laid in my way of thinking. Do you think that you could give a synopsis, of sorts, of what amillinialist believe...chronoloically...and in a nutshell? (I don't ask for much!) If much of the prophecy in Revelation already was fulfilled in 70 AD...what is left to happen? Is the rapture simultaneous with the new heavens and the new earth coming into existance? What of the "first resurrection" and the "second resurrection"? I thank the Lord for leading me to Steve's web site and am so grateful for the hunger that He's planted in me for His Word. Thank you for what you do.

...waiting for Him,
Paula

I would go to thenarrowpath.com and click on "tape download page" and download all of the mp3's in the series called:

When Shall These Things Be?
(Also known as ‘Eschatology series’)

This is one of the most complete description of Amil. theology you can get in one place.

To give an extremely brief description I would say that there comes a time yet future when Jesus will return. At this time He will:

1. Destroy the wicked living on the earth. (2 Thes 1:3-12)
2. Save the believers that are still alive and remain (1 Thes 4:15-17 2 Thes 1:7 & 1:10, Col 3:1-4)
3. Resurrection of the just on "the last day" (Luke 14:14, John 5:28-29, 6:54, Rev 20:12)
4. Raising of the unjust for judgement (at the same time "the last day" as the resurrection of the just) (John 5:28-29, John 12:48, Rev 20:12)
5. The resurrection is the end of death, the LAST enemy being defeated (1 Cor 15:22-26 & 1 Cor 15:51-55)
6. The reign of Christ is now: 1 Cor 15:25 "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. " and Hebrews 10:12-13 "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet." This is what the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 is referring to. A long period of time from the time Jesus took His throne until the last enemy, death is defeated at the "rapture"/resurrection.

Compare John 5:24-29 with Revelation 20's two resurrections.

In John 5:25 Jesus refers to a time that NOW IS when the DEAD hear the voice of the Son of God and those WHO HEAR will LIVE.

Also note John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Compare this with Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

The "first resurrection" is synonymous with Christian "regeneration", or being "born again". This happends before the physical resurrection that Jesus refers to in John 5:28 as an hour that is coming (still future) when the physical dead come out of thier tombs. So Jesus speaks of "two resurrections", Spiritual rebirth and physical resurrection, both events are part of the Christian walk but are seperated by period of time symbolically referred to as "1,000 years", meaning a long period of time between Jesus' first and second coming.

Hope that helps somewhat.

[Guest]

Hi Sean,

Thank you so much for your reply. I am very new to this. Your explanation is VERY helpful. As I read it, it resonated in a place in me that's..."deep down" for lack of a better way of putting it. The words of our Lord in John 5:24 make so much sense in this "new" light.

I have been listening to Steve's tapes...but am anxious to have more knowledge...and fast!! Like I mentioned in my previous post, I was born and raised Catholic...if the Lord was able to unentwine me from the doctirne/traditon/dogma of Catholocism, He is faithful to lead me in to all truth! I just wish I had more time to study and dig. I guess I'm just feeling a bit impatient with my learning and growing process. It's soooo slow! Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

Waiting for Him,
Paula

[_Sean]

Many Catholic churches teach the Amil. view of Revelation 20. However, they also mix in futurism as well, like Matthew 24 they view as being about the future, at least that's what I've been told.

It takes time to learn eschatology. Once you get a handle on the New Testament, just wait until you get into the Old Testament. I'm comfotable with Daniel and I'm just now starting to get comfortable in Isaiah, and have yet to thoroughly go though Jeremiah and Ezekiel, but I'm working on it.

What I'm getting at is it takes a while to get used to the prophets and how they write. Once you are well aquainted with the Old Testament prophets, the new testament prophetic writings make much more sense.

Keep at it, and by all means make notations and references in your bible! This has helped me greatly when I want to recall something.

[Guest]

Sean, thanks again. This morning, I woke up thinking about Matthew 25: 31-46. In my futuristiic mind grid, I could never figure out just who the people were who were standing before this judgement seat. If Jesus' church was raptured off of the earth before the tribulation, (which I considered to be the first resurrection) and then reigned with Him for a thousand years, just WHO were these gathered people? As far as I could figure, these were all of those who were not part of the "first resurrection". I struggled with this, as many of these gathered (the ones on His right) apparantly lived "righteously" and were rewarded with eternal life. Yet...they were not part of the first resurrection (rapture)...meaning, they were not part of His blood washed church. Correct my understanding now ...is this judgement seat for ALL people, those who belong to Christ and those who have rejected Him...and does this all happen at the same time? Does Revelation 20:11-15 (where the sea, death and the grave give up their dead) indicate that ALL will raise bodily at the same time? If so, what does it mean in REv 20:5 "the rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years has ended" I think I'm feeling a bit confused. I just read about all of this in Steve's "4 views" and am really needing to digest all of this. I wish this process wasn't so slow! I crave understanding and truth!

Thanks again for your help.

[_Sean]

We are all judged at the same time. Remember that those who are born again are born of the Spirit and will never die (John 11:25-26) even though they physically die they "live on" in heaven (2 Cor 5:1-2) until the new heavens and earth are created and the saved (the bride of Christ) descend out of heaven. (Rev 21+)

So those that are spoken of as "the rest of the dead did not live again" (NKJV) are those who were not born again, of the Spirit. Do not live on in heaven. Most people believe the lost do live on in Hades, in torment until judgement. And there are those who feel that the dead do not live on but "soul sleep" until judgement.

Paul speaks of regeneration as resurrection as well:

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

So I understand those that live on with Christ in Rev 20:4 to be those who are born again and live on in heaven, seated with Christ in heavenly places until judgement comes and the world is inherited by the believers.

Does that help any?

Realize that most modern translations render Revelation 20:4 as "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

But the KJV and NKJV render it like this: "they lived (on) and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Same follows with Revelation 20:5.

[Guest]

Sean,
Thanks for stepping up and covering this. You're doing a fine job!

Paula,
Thanks for asking these questions. I agree with Sean's answers.

[Guest]

The "first resurrection" is synonymous with Christian "regeneration", or being "born again". This happends before the physical resurrection that Jesus refers to in John 5:28 as an hour that is coming (still future) when the physical dead come out of thier tombs. So Jesus speaks of "two resurrections", Spiritual rebirth and physical resurrection, both events are part of the Christian walk but are seperated by period of time symbolically referred to as "1,000 years", meaning a long period of time between Jesus' first and second coming.

I agree with Sean here but would like to add my comment from another thread which I believe clarifies the First Resurrection a little better.

First Resurrection
I believe that the First Resurrection is referring to the resurrection of Christ. Jesus is described as being the "first begotten of the dead" (Rev 1:5). You are correct in that it refers to our conversion - notice the wording in Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection....". The key words here are "hath part". We have part in Christ's resurrection through our conversion and rebirth and is very well depicted through Baptism in that we are buried with Christ and raised with him (Rom 6:4-5, Col 2:12-13). Thus having part in His resurrection. Praise God!

Rom 6:4-5
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Col 2:12-13
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses

Todd

[Guest]

Sean, Steve and Todd,

I can't tell you how great I think this site is! Thank you so much for your responses...I can feel myself moving towards enlightenment! I feel like I'm unearthing buried treasures...and if it helps me to understand our Creator even just a smidgeon more than I do...if it helps me to "find" more of HIM...then ALLELUIA!

Jeremiah 29:13 ~ "You will seek Me and find me when you seek Me with all of your heart"

This site has helped to renew my passion for His Word. Thanks for being a part of that!

[Guest]

...that last post was no "guest"...it was me! ...I forgot to log in. what a rookie!

Paula