personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

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Paidion
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Re: personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

Post by Paidion » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:18 am

I believe the translators found that in the Romans passage you cited that the "faith of God" would be an incongruence.
The phrase doesn't appear in the Romans passage. Do you mean the phrase that you think should be "faith in Jesus Christ"?

If there is an incongruence, then why weren't the translators of the King James Version, Darby, the Diaglot, Douay, and Young's Literal Translation aware of it? All of them translated it as "faith of Jesus Christ."

As I see it, the translation "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ" makes perfect sense. Here is the way I would translate it:

For by works of the law no person will be made righteous in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who trust.

No one will become truly righteous by striving to keep the Mosaic law. However, through entrusting oneself to Christ, one can manifest God's righteousness in his life (the righteousness that has its source in God), because of the faithfulness of Jesus in dying on our behalf to deliver us from sin by God's enabling grace, that there might be a practical working of righteousness in our lives.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Homer
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Re: personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

Post by Homer » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:01 pm

Paidion,

We are getting confused here. You referenced Romans 3:3-4. In Romans 3:3 pistin is translated "faithfulness" because saying "faith of God" makes no sense. In fact, that verse is cited as proof that pistis can mean faithfulness.

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Paidion
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Re: personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

Post by Paidion » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:41 am

Okay, I was confused. I thought you were referring to the Romans passage of the original post.
Paidion

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njd83
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Re: personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

Post by njd83 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:59 am

Homer wrote:
But now, apart from law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed, and is attested by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ for all the believing.
Note: red words not in Greek text.

Are you saying that we are justified by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ; by that substitutionary death which He died as an act of faith on behalf of those people who would believe? That would make sense of the context as would "faith in Jesus Christ". Given that neither the article "the" nor "of" or "in" are present in the Greek it seems to me the whole context demands one or the other understanding. The point Paul is making is that there is no righteousness through the keeping of The Law, or any law; we are always justified freely (and only) by His grace.
Homer i was re-reading this thread and you chimed in here and I wanted to comment, since I had tuned out of this thread/forum at this point:

I think the clear distinction I got from the Bible was not "we are not justified by Law or any law". This is my leaning i got from scripture. and its hard to tell without a literal translation or interlinear:
“we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.’” (Galatians 2:15–16, YLT)
See the disctinction? law is good. but not enough pure loving righteousness alone without a faith based relationship, like Abraham had before Mosaic Law. Law makes a person proud. So Paul talks about boasting. Law does not arrive at perfect loving righteousness apart from God, or faith in God:
“What, then, shall we say? that nations who are not pursuing righteousness did attain to righteousness, and righteousness that is of faith, and Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, at a law of righteousness did not arrive; wherefore? because—not by faith, but as by works of law; for they did stumble at the stone of stumbling, according as it hath been written, ‘Lo, I place in Sion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence; and every one who is believing thereon shall not be ashamed.’” (Romans 9:30–33, YLT)
So the stumbling stone is basically "we're not good enough on our own" without God, or faith relationship with God, his divine righteousness upon us by pleasing him by faith. Its just like the tree of life, being cut off from choosing our own way: the tree of knowledge. God would teach us knowledge, had we never sinned, but it would be based on a faith relationship. Likewise, following the law without faith is dry and dead and leaves us wanting.
Last edited by njd83 on Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: personal translation of Romans 3:19-28

Post by njd83 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:01 am

Homer wrote:
Actually the Greek is "ιησου χριστου" which is in the genitive case, and therefore means "of Jesus Christ."
Not necessarily; it can be an objective or subjective genitive. See similar words from Paul:

Galatians 2:16 (NASB)

16. nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Here we have the same genitive twice (underlined), but doesn't Paul's statement (italics) show that he means the genitive in the objective sense, and the same in Romans?

How would the "faith of Christ" justify someone else? One the other hand if it is translated "Faithfulness of Christ", we have something else to discuss.
Could Paul not being talking about "in Christ" positionally here and in a couple other places? We have to have the type of faith that keeps us "abiding in Christ" otherwise our faith is non fact based right? some off faith that doesn't accord with scripture or something....

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