1Thessalonian Hapaxes

dizerner

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by dizerner » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:10 am

robinriley wrote:(dizerner)
Lol, yea a prefix can change a word a lot, but not necessarily I guess.

(robin)
...seems that sometimes certain prepositions are added just to make the base word more emphatic,
or so I've been told; I dont always see it that way, but then some of my combination word readings
are terribly awkward ...

(dizerner)
Btw, what do you think about pronunciation. Do you prefer Erasmian or Modern?

(robin)
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king ... I'm almost deaf, fruits of my submarine service ... I have trouble saying English words correctly.
In the kingdom of the deaf, a one eared man can babble and get away with it.
Aw, lol, I'm sorry to hear that man. I'm just now starting to record... if I can stop being lazy.

Hey, are you gonna publish? That stuff looked official. Send me your translation if you want, I won't give it around, I've been fascinated by translations for many years now.

robinriley
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 1:05 am

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by robinriley » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:25 am

(dizerner)
I'm just now starting to record... if I can stop being lazy.

(robin)
To record what ...

(dizerner)
Hey, are you gonna publish? That stuff looked official.

(robin)
Am thinking about it ... but just to give away, not for profit ...

(dizerner)
...been fascinated by translations for many years now.

(robin)
not ready just yet for real public consumption ... I've only been at it, now, for 12 years,
give it another decade or two, and I'll have Paul's 13 little letters ready, but thanks for
the offer ... That is, I wouldn't want you confirming that I'm bad at this, rather have you
just suspecting that I am ...

dizerner

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by dizerner » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:32 am

robinriley wrote:(dizerner)
I'm just now starting to record... if I can stop being lazy.

(robin)
To record what ...

(dizerner)
Hey, are you gonna publish? That stuff looked official.

(robin)
Am thinking about it ... but just to give away, not for profit ...

(dizerner)
...been fascinated by translations for many years now.

(robin)
not ready just yet for real public consumption ... I've only been at it, now, for 12 years,
give it another decade or two, and I'll have Paul's 13 little letters ready, but thanks for
the offer ... That is, I wouldn't want you confirming that I'm bad at this, rather have you
just suspecting that I am ...
Bro, you are not bad, stop being so modest. I wrote some translations, but paraphrastic.

My current goal is to record the Greek NT ... -_-

robinriley
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 1:05 am

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by robinriley » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:24 pm

(robin)
So, back to those 17 hapaxes in 1Thessalonians ...Verse 5:14 has two of these unique words,
two in the same verse strikes me as interesting, almost as if this were done so just to attract our attention ...

0813 GK0863 ataktous (~p1~) to disarranged [ones] A-APM.08 [Verse 5:14]
3642 GK3901 oligopsuchous (~p1~) to wee-souled [ones] [diminutive] A-APM.08 [Verse 5:14]

The above is just my reading of the words, there's likely better readings ... which, if you have one or two, please, feel free to put them up for discussion.

So then, two unique words in a single verse; let's look ...
Παρακαλοῦμεν δὲ ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, νουθετεῖτε τοὺς ἀτάκτους, παραμυθεῖσθε τοὺς ὀλιγοψύχους, ἀντέχεσθε τῶν ἀσθενῶν, μακροθυμεῖτε πρὸς πάντας.
parakaloumen de humas adelphoi noutheteite tous ataktous paramutheisthe tous oligopsuchous antechesthe tOn asthenOn makrothumeite pros pantas

The second line is my transliteration ... there are no notable source text variants ... it's the seventh and tenth words, above, which are the topic hapaxes ...
And here's the additional information about the rest of the words in this verse:

we beside-call {3870 V-PAI-1P} yet {1161 CONJ} to you {1473 P-2AP} brethrened! {0080 N-VPM} be you admonishing {3560 V-PAM-2P} to the [ones] {3588 T-APM} to disarranged [ones]
{0813 A-APM} be you beside-consoling {3888 V-PNM-2P} to the [ones] {3588 T-APM} to wee-souled [ones] {3642 A-APM} be you instead-holding {0472 V-PNM-2P} of the [ones] {3588 T-GPM}
of weak [ones] {0772 A-GPM} be you long-tempering {3114 V-PAM-2P} towards {4314 PREP} to all [ones] {3956 A-APM}

And here, dear reader, is my best current English reading of this verse ... you might, here too, have some suggested adjustments ... feel free, it's a forum, and I'm open to improvements.

"Yet to you, brethrened, we beside-call:
To the disarranged [ones] be you admonishing, [hapaxe]
to the wee-souled [ones] be you beside-consoling; [hapaxe]
be you instead-holding of the weak,
[and] towards all [ones]
be you long-tempering." (~Robin)

There be four imperatives, the first two include our topic hapaxes ...
1) be you admonishing
2) be you beside-consoling
3) be you instead-holding
4) be you long-tempering

Three of these four verbs are, of course, combination Greek words;
the other one (be you admonishing) is obviously the most acceptable reading of the lot;
the hyphenated ones are always a challenge ...

So, our hapaxes are associated with both an easy, and a challenging imperative ...
To the disarranged [ones] be you admonishing, [hapaxe]
to the wee-souled [ones] be you beside-consoling; [hapaxe]

noutheteite tous ataktous
paramutheisthe tous oligopsuchous

The two above hapaxes "ataktous" and "oligopsuchous" are both descriptives, "stand-alone" adjectives (accusative, plural, masculine) ...
I say "stand-alone" adjectives, because they really dont have a stated object to modify ... there is, of course, their similiarly declined definite articles,
which I suppose, might be considered to be providing objects/ persons to be discriptive of; hence, my reading of them as ..."to the [ones]" ...
[Note: For the sake of a consistent reading, I always include/ tack on the added word "to" with all accusatives ... "to disarranged [ones] ... "to wee-souled [ones]" ...]

Now then, "ataktous" ...to disarranged [ones] {0813 A-APM} ... the prefixed "a" is a negation or privation,
and following "tasso" family (#5021) word, which basicly means "to set in order" or "to arrange" ... hence, my reading of ..."disarranged" ... "to disarranged [ones]" ...

5021 GK5435 etaxan they had arranged V-AAI-3P.5656
5021 GK5435 tetagmenai having had been arranged V-RPP-NPF.5772

Question #1:

So then, dear reader, here's my first question... my request for your input ... do you think that I might improve upon this,
by rethinking #5021 to read "ordered" instead of "arranged" ... that is, there are a number of other related words, which would then, also,
have to be so adjusted, but specifically, here, this would thus change the topic hapax to ..."disordered" or "disorderly" [ones] {0813 A-APM}

To the disordered [ones] be you admonishing
To the disaorderly [ones] be you admonishing

[Note: The Dabhar, Youngs, Rotherham's, and the CLNT all read this word as ..."disorderly" ...
so we wojldn't be breaking any new ground by going with this adjustment, it's just that .."disarranged [ones]" ... sort of appealed to me]

dizerner

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by dizerner » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:04 pm

Disarranged ones is nice, what I find for me a more distinct or unusual word makes me rethink the meaning through, something I think is a helpful exercise.

robinriley
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 1:05 am

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by robinriley » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:30 pm

dizerner wrote:Disarranged ones is nice, what I find for me a more distinct or unusual word makes me rethink the meaning through, something I think is a helpful exercise.
(robin)
Yes, that was sort of it's appeal for me as well ... but then, "disorderly" isn't bad, and is the more commonly accepted .. but then again, certain words, and figures of speech used in scriptures are there, are imployed for the very purpose of making one pause and ponder, rather than just quickly reading over the top of what is being said ...

A disarranged [one] isn't, after all, a "deranged" one ... just a person sort of flustered, confused, unorganized, and perhaps because of this, just a bit unruly ...
That is, not a mad hatter, just a low average batter ... my kind of associates.
Last edited by robinriley on Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

robinriley
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 1:05 am

Re: 1Thessalonian Hapaxes

Post by robinriley » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:24 pm

"...to the wee-souled [ones] be you beside-consoling" [hapaxe]

3642 GK3901 oligopsuchous (~p1~) to wee-souled [ones] [diminutive] A-APM.08
...oligO ...psuchE ...

5590 GK6034 psuchE (2) a soul N-NSF.09
3641 GK3900 oligO (p2) unto a little [one] [size/quantity; number; time/action] A-DSM.03
3641 GK3900 oligon (1) to a little [one] A-ASM.04
3641 GK3900 oligon (1) to a little [thing] A-ASN.20

3888 GK4170 paramutheisthe (p1/1) be you beside-consoling V-PNM-2P.5737

(Robin)
This is a diminutive, thus the prefixed "wee" ... could have used "little," but wanted it to convey something more gentle ...
And again, it's a stand-alone adjective, so I've added the bracketed "[ones]" just to show that it's not a noun ... to wee-souled [ones]
I think of "soul" in a more practical way, as one's awareness, the spark of "life" that comes to life when a body and spirit are united;
that is, all living things have a soul, birds, worms, elephants, me ... have a soul, when they live and breath, but when the God given
spirit (which is not the soul) leaves a body, a worm's body, an elephant's body, the life winks out, the soul ceases to exist, and all that's
left is a hunk of clay, a pile of clay if it was an elephant, just a smidgin of clay if it was a worm ... the clay, goes back into the earth,
the spirit returns to it's Giver. All living things have soul, because all living things are given a spirit ... however, we're not talkimg about
the additional, differnet spirit that God gives to us when we are graced to become believers, that spirit has absolutly nothing to do with soul.

The verb, "paramutheisthe" ...be you beside-consoling ... in this word form is only used this once (p1/1), but the word, in other forms,
is found in six other NT verses, so it's not a hapaxe, but it is, indeed, a rarely used word, and in this form, used just the once, so this
verse is, all in all, a very particular and singularly interesting verse ... that is, it's been specially designed by God, to draw our attention ...
for some reason, I dont know the particular reason, I just recognize the fact that this verse is, for some reason, a special verse ...

Paul uses another similar hapaxe in Phil 2:2 ..."sumpsuchoi" .... to a together-souled [one] {4861 A-NPM}

"to the joy of me you be fulfilling,
so-that to the same [matter] you should dispose,
to the same love holding,
a together-souled [one] to the one [matter] disposing." (~Robin)

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