A while back I called Steve asking if he had any theories on why John 21:11 says specifically that the disciples caught exactly 153 fish. I am teaching on that chapter tonight so I've been reading numerous explanations and thought I'd share a summary....
Interpretations of the 153 Fish
It is not necessarily surprising that the fish were counted (either for sale purposes or simple curiosity over the miracle). Therefore, it is possible that the number was simply recorded as added detail and has no symbolic value. Numerous theories, however, have been presented as to potential significance to the number 153.
1) Jerome suggested that there were exactly 153 kinds of fish. Thus, the ‘153’ was symbolic for the fact that the Gospel was to spread to ‘all kinds’ of people. But this appears to be a case of ‘cooking the books’ b/c we have no record of an ancient belief that there were exactly 153 kinds of fish.
2) Augustine, noting that 153 is the triangular number of 17, broke 17 down into 10 + 7. Thus, the ‘153’ was symbolic for the complete revelation of God constituted by the Law (10 commandments) and the Spirit (Revelation 1:4). Or, perhaps it refers to 5 (loaves) + 12 (baskets left-over and therefore is symbolic of fruitfulness). But this sort of breaking down of 17 seems somewhat arbitrary.
3) Others see the passage as the fulfillment of Ezekiel 47:10. Using Hebrew gematria, the words Gedi and Eglaim add up to 17 and 153 respectively. Thus, the ‘153’ was symbolic for the eschatological collection of ‘all kinds’ of people into the Kingdom of God.
The possible significance of ‘153’ will not be appreciated if we are unaware that gematria was a well known practice in the ancient world. After reading chapter 13 (The 153 fish and the unity of the fourth gospel) of Richard Bauckham's book 'The Testimony of the Beloved Disciple' I am impressed with his argument that '153' was indeed connected to Ezekiel 47:10 via gematria.
PS... this is just a 'fun' topic. It's not important that people see the significance of 153 (if indeed it is significant). Bauckham, though, does use his theory to show that chapter 21 was not a later addition (I won't go into the details on how he demonstrates that).
153 Fish?
-
darinhouston
- Posts: 3114
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am
Re: 153 Fish?
I continue to be surprised by the strange influences of Augustine.mattrose wrote:2) Augustine, noting that 153 is the triangular number of 17, broke 17 down into 10 + 7. Thus, the ‘153’ was symbolic for the complete revelation of God constituted by the Law (10 commandments) and the Spirit (Revelation 1:4). But this breaking down of 17 seems somewhat arbitrary.
Re: 153 Fish?
Totally agree!darinhouston wrote:I continue to be surprised by the strange influences of Augustine.
-
RICHinCHRIST
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:27 am
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: 153 Fish?
When we consider that 666 is a word game of sorts, it may add to the posibility that 153 has some deeper meaning.
When I was a kid and had a crush I'd write out the girls name and give it a numerical value using A=1, B=2, etc. I thought I had invented this system. I had no idea it had been being used for thousands of years
When I was a kid and had a crush I'd write out the girls name and give it a numerical value using A=1, B=2, etc. I thought I had invented this system. I had no idea it had been being used for thousands of years
-
backwoodsman
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:32 am
- Location: Not quite at the ends of the earth, but you can see it from here.
Re: 153 Fish?
The difference is, 666 was a symbol for something that had to be concealed from the wrong people. There's no such thing going on with the number of fish; it just illustrates the magnitude of the miracle. I don't see any reason to think it might mean anything else. If it does, it sure isn't very obvious, as illustrated by the wide range of suggestions some have made.mattrose wrote:When we consider that 666 is a word game of sorts, it may add to the posibility that 153 has some deeper meaning.
But such suggestions aren't completely useless -- if nothing else, they make one wonder why guys like Jerome and Augustine are so highly respected as theologians.
Re: 153 Fish?
Even still, I think Richard Bauckham makes a pretty compelling case in the chapter I mentioned.
-
LoveFountain
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:16 am
Re: 153 Fish?
Matt 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
4:20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
4:21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
Jesus came upon some of the disciples who were fishermen mending their nets and told them to follow Him and that He would make them fishers of men.
They walked with Jesus and learned how to be fishers of men. Yet after Jesus was crucified they went right back to what they were doing before.
John 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
21:2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
21:3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
Messing up and going back to what they were doing before, not doing what they are supposed to be doing, they caught nothing. Bearing no fruit! Empty net!
John 21:4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
21:5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
No meat! Bearing no fruit! Doing it man's way again which will take them back to mending their nets!
John 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
Now Jesus is giving them a nudge, setting them back to the path they were supposed to be on! Bearing fruit doing it God's way!
John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
Peter gets a wake up call and gets himself back together again to do it Gods way just like he had been taught, to be a fisher of men! Time to bear fruit!
John 21:8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
21:10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
They did it Gods way again and the net doesn't break! They bring in 153 fish, they are bearing fruit again!
The word of God teaches us what 153 represents. 153 represents fruit-bearing!
For when we do it Gods way that is exactly what happens, we shall bear fruit! That is what the disciples needed to be reminded of when they went right back to doing it mans way after learning how to do it Gods way and being fishers of men!
Good fishing to all and may God bless your fishing!
In the name Iesous!
Love Fountain
4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
4:20 And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.
4:21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
Jesus came upon some of the disciples who were fishermen mending their nets and told them to follow Him and that He would make them fishers of men.
They walked with Jesus and learned how to be fishers of men. Yet after Jesus was crucified they went right back to what they were doing before.
John 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
21:2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
21:3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
Messing up and going back to what they were doing before, not doing what they are supposed to be doing, they caught nothing. Bearing no fruit! Empty net!
John 21:4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
21:5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
No meat! Bearing no fruit! Doing it man's way again which will take them back to mending their nets!
John 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
Now Jesus is giving them a nudge, setting them back to the path they were supposed to be on! Bearing fruit doing it God's way!
John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
Peter gets a wake up call and gets himself back together again to do it Gods way just like he had been taught, to be a fisher of men! Time to bear fruit!
John 21:8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
21:9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
21:10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
They did it Gods way again and the net doesn't break! They bring in 153 fish, they are bearing fruit again!
The word of God teaches us what 153 represents. 153 represents fruit-bearing!
For when we do it Gods way that is exactly what happens, we shall bear fruit! That is what the disciples needed to be reminded of when they went right back to doing it mans way after learning how to do it Gods way and being fishers of men!
Good fishing to all and may God bless your fishing!
In the name Iesous!
Love Fountain
Re: 153 Fish?
Theory #888:
153 represents who Jesus was.
153= 100+50+3
The Greek letters all represented numbers.
ρ (rho)----> 100
ν (nu) -----> 50
γ (gamma) -> 3
ραββει (Rabbi) ναζαρας (of Nazareth) γαλιλαιᾳ (in Galilee)
Rabbi from Nazareth in Galilee
153 represents who Jesus was.
153= 100+50+3
The Greek letters all represented numbers.
ρ (rho)----> 100
ν (nu) -----> 50
γ (gamma) -> 3
ραββει (Rabbi) ναζαρας (of Nazareth) γαλιλαιᾳ (in Galilee)
Rabbi from Nazareth in Galilee
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.